Why science and the Bible don't agree, page-354

  1. 11,245 Posts.
    So here we go again, YOU totally ignore the Bible references I gave, here a little and there a little as where required to do.
    Ignore the ours and us as in we can only say for sure, imply, some or a host only observed, God alone, his hands etc creating or the us is his wisdom, personified. 
    You totally ignore Jesus' very own words that His Almighty God and Father created man in His OWN image.
    You ignore the numerous verses which clearly show God in the singular created, I, He, Him etc.
    "For those that misuse and abuse the Col 1:17 and TRY and align it to Col 1:15 is a disgrace to The Word and The Word of God = God and Jesus and is not of the Spirit of Truth, they are two totally different things, events."

    it does not matter what you or I say, but WHAT the Bible says I have to wear this one, as my above words ref to Col 15:-17 IS misleading and deceptive conduct by me as I meant Col 1:15 & 1:18 firstborn of creation and firstborn from the dead = two totally different events, miles apart and most of you lot TRY to suggest and fail, to say these two are referring to the same thing.

    I say misleading and deceptive conduct because --> it doesn't actually have to mislead but, could it have the potential to mislead the average Joe Blow and the answer is yes.

    Origin of genitive

    1350–1400; Middle English >  Medieval Latin genitīvus
    In English, you will often hear the term possessive case in place of genitive case, but be aware that the genitive case is not always about possession.

    possession. -->
    In regards to the actual doer, hands on in creation.
    The Almighty God and Fathers words, The Word = The Word of God  that Jesus was given (John 12:49) and spoke, are Spirit and Life (John 6:63), words of eternal life(John 6:68), which means, In Him Life was (John 1:4 = Almighty God and Father).
    Jesus was GIVEN the Spirit/Word, The Word which means = The Word of God at or by Baptism timing which IS where he was sent into the World (Ex John 17:18), WITHOUT measure, meaning the Godhead, fullness = of Almighty God and THAT then gave him life within Himself as the God and Father has John 5:26.
    Heb 1:1-2 makes it very clear, God ONLY spoke in Jesus in these Last days = After Baptism. 
    Therefore the Bible dictates, forces us to accept the following in none other than the Almighty God and Father;
    Psa 33:6 - By the word of the LORD where the heavens made and all the hosts of them by the breath of his mouth. =(Spirit).
    Heb 11:3 - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    Neh 9:6 - Thou, thou, LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
    Isa 45:12 -
     I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I,evenmy hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
    (Now to even think this is not in the singular, never mind saying otherwise, is to grossly misrepresent  the word of God. Especially when we also know, God's word is referred to at times, His Hand and we know when Jesus was sent into the world after Baptism, He is referred to as God's right hand, given this position, role, to FINISH the God and Fathers works, so we now Have things
    literally through (possession) Jesus, for the FIRST time).Now then Tonio, the Bible not you or I dictates, as to who alone was the creator.
    Now when one sees the tongue twisting talking in circles like you have done, Trinity scholars actions, on the through word, you know instantly there forcing, prepping you for their beliefs and NOT of God.
    You have put forward a GROSS example of how the word through is used and should be used where it attaches Jesus to the creation even of which there is only around three of NUMEROUS verses showing God alone created.
    You know full well, through can and does have dual meanings.
    The example you used was just fluff and bull.
    Lets say before I met my wife, my plans were to have a wife and kids, now through them, or this thought, for this reason, for the sake of them, by reason of, because of them, through them, I had to make plans on what I was going to do work wise, income.
    I started an apprenticeship as a Fitter Machinist and towards the end of this, in dept to purchase a state of the art, so to speak, a one man band Hay carting machine, 100 bale carrying capacity as during my holidays, spare time, this is part of what I did and this was THROUGH and for the future ones, wife and kids to be.
    NATURALLY, they had NO hands on role at this point in time, but it was still through them, the ones to be.Then I met and married my wife, NOW then, and ONLY then, through her, her NOW HAVING a hands on role, we did this and that to achieve what I had planed. 
    2 Sam 7:12-14 I will be a Father to him and He will be a Son to me, so through this one to be, I and I alone created everything AND --> Col 1:18-20 - And he is the head of the body, (Appointed) the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn out from the dead; that in all so that might be in all things He holding preeminence.For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
    And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, through him to reconcile all things unto himself; through him,  whether things in earth, or things in heaven.

    Titus 1:2 - In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before time eternal;
    2 Tim 1:9 - Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal,

    Rev 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    Rev 3:14 - And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
    Col 1:15 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of creation:I mean goodness me Tonio, you have it here right in your face, in the mind and plans of God, ALL these verses are in reference to the MAN to be, Jesus and NOT some pre-existing spirit;
    Eph 3:9 - And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things.

    You also have here and loud and clear, the TWO contexts of the word THROUGH as per the example I gave.
    The literal aspect Through Jesus so the LITERAL preeminence, actual preeminence could become a reality, Through Jesus, HINGED on him being raised from the dead. Only then did it come into play, prior all the hopes and dreams, so to speak are THROUGH this future one to be. That was the Light, word of God, promised to Moses and Co.
    In the mind and plans of God, first up was this future one, the beginning of the creation of God, firstborn of God's inner creation, pre-slain, promise given to us, not literal at this point, before time eternal, a hope in God's mind, inner logos as it was known to be some several hundred years before Jesus's actual coming. 

    My highlighted points in the following, obviously went over your pre-set seeds;
    The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
    17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

    Now ask yourself, how can all things be created IN him? (Clearly showing, for this reason, on account of, for the sake the future one).
    This is clearly showing the context of, because of, by reason of, for the sake of, on account of this FUTURE one TO BE, and at before time eternal, the thoughts of this future one was first cap off the ranks.
    All things hold together = 2 aspects, past as in this plan was there light to their path, holding them together, everything and the fulfillment now, literally Jesus is holding all things together as God has placed all things into his hands.

    ALL these verse are in the context of
    the MAN Jesus and pre- his coming as I understand you believe and as the Bible shows, there was no literal man Jesus in any way shape of form other than in the mind of God.
    Are YOU trying to say a Man created eek.png
    YOU need to grasp 1 Cor 15:46 - Howbeit that wasnot first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    So if you insist that Jesus was a pre-existing Spirit, the above places that error right in your face, this said spirit is after Adam.

    So all these 5 ref, Titus etc ARE the Bread that came down, The Word = The Word of God IN the Temple, not built with Hands.
    Now we have the literal, manifestation of this Bread, Light, Plan, The Word of God.
    Matt 4:4 - But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
    As well as being referred to as bread, it is also GLORY and this Glory was held by God, before time eternal.
    Greek Truth - 
    John 17:5 - And now glorify Me You, Father, with yourself, that held before 
    the world existed, --> with YOU.John 1:18 (Greek) - God no one has seen ever yet; only-begotten God, the being in the bosom of the Father, He has made him known.
    As John 17:5 clearly shows, shows, Jesus asks for God's literal presence now as God is Glory, as well as his words, plans, Jesus has seen him now as he is in the bosom, God's light, which gives Jesus immortality. 1 Tim 6:16.
    And Jesus makes it CLEAR, before THE WORLD existed WITH GOD = referring to God alone, and His plans, the Glory HELD via God, within Him, Hidden Mystery.

    Jesus now exalted to a God, but NOT the Almighty God and Father.

    that held before the world existed, = In God, inner logos = Greek --> And God WAS The Word, the first 2 verses of John's meaning. Eph 3:9. Meaning John 1:4 In Him, Almighty God and Father life was = His Word, words = Glory, Bread, Light, Pasture etc.

    So when your prepared to come back with counter verses to the above, we will have something to discuss, or will you go back under your rock, vanish?

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