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Gold - Murphy vs Kaplan

  1. AnnaPhylaxis

    470 Posts.

    I love Kaplan's response! Agree or disagree, the man has class....
    Gold face-off: Murphy vs SG, Kaplan

    By: Pitcher

    Posted: 2002/11/20 Wed 19:35 ZE2 | © Mineweb 1997-2002

    JOHANNESBURG – Bill Murphy, head of the Gold Anti-trust Action Committee (GATA), today issued an unequivocal challenge to doubters of his gold manipulation theory, to meet him and his co-conspiratorialists in a face-off to argue the merits of his hypotheses.
    In an energetic flurry of postings beneath a story penned by Mineweb ‘s London correspondent Ken Gooding - in which SG economist Frederic Lesserre cautioned that persistent rumours of a plot to suppress the gold price was hurting the metals’ long term investment appeal – Murphy threw down the gauntlet to the World Gold Council, Paris-based bank Societe Generale and Leonard Kaplan of Prospector Asset Management.

    “The World Gold Council is a disgrace to the gold world. GATA has challenged them in the past and challenges them, Socgen, and Leonard Kaplan (of Prospectors Asset Management) to a debate in London, or New York, ASAP,” said a clearly agitated Murphy in one of three postings beneath the story.

    "If the Sogen flunkies pass, try our antagonist, Leonard Kaplan of Prospectors Asset Management. I am ready to rumble. Let us get it on with those that say the conspiracy crowd have a screw loose," Murphy added for good measure.

    Pitcher notes that in a magnanimous gesture aimed at making the prospect of a public debate more palatable for his dissenters, Murphy also promised to fund the discussion. Pitcher hopes Mineweb will take up the offer to exclusive coverage of the argument, should Murphy’s dare be taken up. Don’t hold your breath, though, Murphy’s track record in attempting to draw the bears out of the closet has not had any takers in years gone by.

    "NO ONE IN THE GOLD WORLD HAS EVER ACCEPTED A DEBATE FROM THE GATA CAMP. NO ONE! NO ONE!," Murphy yelled. Their silence has indeed be deafening, but Pitcher believes that as long as there's life, there's hope..

    The challenge has not yet drawn any response from SG or the World Gold Council, but Mineweb has published Leonard Kaplan’s response in full below, as well as each of Murphy’s postings. Both authors scripts are unedited.

    Bill Murphy
    Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee

    First comment

    Conspiracy is too rinky dink a description for what has transpired in the gold world for the past 7 years. They are common in all the corporate scandals these days. The gold scandal is much bigger than that. The beauty of all the discrepancy in the opinion of the gold market will be in the price action of the future. If gold explodes, GATA is right. If it does not and moves higher and slowly, we are wrong. The proof will be in the pudding.

    Meanwhile, the "conspiracy crowd" continues to be chastized by the "bullion dealer apologists" and those that never traded more than 100 futures contracts at a time. Four years ago, it was just Chris Powell, the editor of a daily newspaper in the US, and I that exclaimed something was wrong in the gold world. Now the GATA ARMY includes:

    *Reg Howe, brilliant Harvard educated attorney
    *Bob Landis - extraordinary securities attorney
    *Jim Sinclair - Mr. Gold of the big gold move of the late 70's. He is the major shareholder of Tan Range, a sparking gold company today. No one is more gold knowledgable that JIM SINCLAIR on gold and Jim says GATA is right.
    *Legendary Richard Russell begrudgingly also says GATA is right, that the gold market is manipulated.
    *The legendary Harry "Sky King" Schultz" says GATA is right.
    *Former Chase banker James Turk says GATA is right.
    |*So does the highly respected Bob Bishop of the Gold Mining Stock Report.
    *Tom Chalandra of CBS MarketWatch praised GATA at the New Orleans Investment Conference.
    *How about JOHN EMBRY of THE ROYAL BANK OF CANDADA. If you are so inclinded, read what he has to say at:http://www.gata.org/RBCReport.html - John Embry says GATA is right.

    I could go on and on. No point in that.


    GATA challenges SOGEN to a luncheon debate, which GATA will pay for as soon as possible. GATA offers The MineWeb to have the exclusive rights to this debate.


    If the Sogen flunkies pass, try our antagonist, Leonard Kaplan of Prospectors Asset Management. I am ready to rumble. Let us get it on with those that say the conspiracy crowd have a screw loose.


    Second Posting

    Dear Ken and Tim,

    GATA will pay for The World Gold Council to attend our luncheon as part of the debate, whether that be London or New York. They have vilified GATA over the years and we, like James Sinclair, have called them useless at best.

    Ask them if they would be willing to engage GATA "on the record" for eventual public dissemination. GATA is ready and waiting to debate and discuss. Let's go in the weeks ahead. New York, London? Their call? We will be there!

    All the best,


    Third Posting

    It is time for the mainstream gold world to put up or shut up. GATA challenges the whole lot to a debate in London or New York within weeks.

    GATA takes on all comers. This is my last posting on this, but I will end with what the legendary Jim Sinclair allowed me to reprint in my MIDAS column at www.LeMetropoleCafe.com: Jim Sinclair sends an email on the FT gold piece brought to your attention in last night’s Midas. Couldn’t say it better myself. Actually, it is wonderful to see someone else pontificate on what GATA has ranted on all these years:

    Dear Frank:

    It always amazes me what sources the FT uses. Andy Smith has been bullish six months out of his entire career. He hates gold and is considered devoutly anti-gold by the gold community. The Gold Council has been, historically, a useless mouth piece for the 3 major producers who are the three major gold derivative hedgers who also are the Gold Council's main sources of funding. That means the Gold Council is funded by well over 30,000,000 ounces of short gold right now in the total hedge position of it source of funding.

    The new Chairman is however hopeful, but the Chairman's first great deed for the council was to hire a popular California State bureaucrat manager (of other bureaucrat's retirement fund whose record was to be long in a bear market equities like Enron) as a key executive to represent the gold industry. I am told he did not have even a 1% gold share representation under his management. The Gold Council is distasteful to the gold community. I personally know more about gold than the Gold Council will ever discover. To place the major focus by the Gold Council on the jewelry industry now is disgraceful and insulting to gold's true nature. Gold is money.

    The World Gold Council is a disgrace to the gold world. GATA has challenged them in the past and challenges them, SOGEN, and Leonard Kaplan to a debate in London, or New York, ASAP. Our camp considers them to be a bunch of zeros! They think we are of the "not so well conspiracy crowd." So be it.

    Let the www.themineweb.com conduct a reasoned debate on the gold market manipulation issue. GATA is ready and waiting to debate and WE WILL PAY FOR IT! Can Mineweb find any takers in the huff and puff gold mainstream world to challenge the GATA evidence of gold price manipulation? I doubt it!!!!


    Leonard Kaplan
    Prospector Asset Management
    Dear Mr. Murphy,

    It would appear that your well published exuberance has incited you to call me your "antagonist". This is a shameful accusation as I bear you and your organization absolutely no ill will or emnity. On the the salient facts, we agree that gold is in a long term secular bull market. It would seem that while I take the pragmatic approach of seeing each ebb and flow of the market as a rather natural event, you see the sinister hand of some mystical international conspiracy. Neither of us can prove our arguments at this point in time to the others satisfaction. But I see our disagreements as non-material in the grand scheme of things. Besides, I fail to see how my small and unimportant opinion matters much in the public court of opinion weighed against the opinions of your esteemed associates.

    However, let me, perhaps, offer a bit of advice in your advancements of your argument. It is certainly not a good idea to completely defame the very basis of your argument by your own words. It is bad methodology to refute your own argument in your own words. As an example, you wrote

    "If gold explodes, GATA is right. If it does not and moves higher and slowly, we are wrong. The proof will be in the pudding."

    Well, Sir...over the past two years, gold has moved higher in a rather slow and orderly fashion and the "moonshot" that you have forecast has not occured. Thus, logically, you have been wrong for years, and by your own words and preconditions. As you see, you have condemned your own argument.

    I wish you and your associates the best of luck as both of us would dearly enjoy seeing higher gold prices.

    Leonard Kaplan

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