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ESI 0.8¢

may the best man win.

  1. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    Latrobe City Council chief executive Paul Buckley said Shanghai Electric was a huge and credible organisation. ''If there was an opportunity for them to invest in the valley in the kinds of projects the council supports, then we would be very happy for them to be here.''
    Tom Arup http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/china-powers-ahead-in-hidden-tender-for-brown-coal-millions-20130806-2rdjt.html


    2006 - Shanghai Electric is halted --- Hong Kong exchange suspends share trade amid fraud inquiry.
    http://www.hkhkhk.com/engpro/messages/2123.html

    January 2008 - Wang Chengming, chairman of the state-owned Shanghai Electric Corporation, (former MD of Shanghai Electric Group), was given a suspended death sentence,
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jan/04/china.motorsports

    August, 2012 - The mainland's biggest corruption case in more than a decade moved a step closer to its conclusion yesterday, with six men sentenced in a multibillion-yuan Shanghai pension fund case…
    Two former directors of the state-owned Shanghai Electric Group were also sentenced...Han Guozhang was jailed for life for accepting 6 million yuan in bribes. His partner, Li Songjiang , was given a three-year sentence for bribing other people.
    http://www.scmp.com/article/609068/six-jailed-shanghai-pension-graft-scandal

    August 2012 - Oversight lapses found at Shanghai Electric.
    Shanghai Electric Group, one of the mainland's three largest power equipment makers, had oversight shortcomings, including in its financial reporting controls, risk management and internal auditing, according to an Ernst & Young review.
    Former company directors Li Songjian, Han Guozhang and Zhang Rongkun, who all also controlled key stakes in the power generation equipment maker, were detained in Shanghai for misappropriating pension funds.
    http://www.scmp.com/article/583548/oversight-lapses-found-shanghai-electric

    November 2012 - No Value For Money - Falling power output can’t be attributed only to inadequate coal supply, there’s a new culprit — faulty equipment.
    Shanghai Electric selling defective equipment to India.
    http://business.outlookindia.com/article_v3.aspx?artid=282966


    June 2012: Chinese power gear snag in Haryana worries Centre
    …has now been shipped to equipment vendor Shanghai Electric Company’s facility in China as the firm does not have a service facility in India.
    In case of Yamunanagar, both units are under forced shut downs after reported turbine failures. With the rotor of the first turbine unit — again supplied by Shanghai Electric — failing, a desperate HPGCL had to send it across for repair to the Siemens’ facility in Baroda … the turbine blades of the second unit are also reported to be damaged.
    http://www.financialexpress.com/news/chinese-power-gear-snag-in-haryana-worries-centre/962875/2

    Han Guozhang - Former Vice President of the Shanghai Electric Group - Involved in the Shanghai Electric Group case; 6 million yuan in bribes (10 million $AU) - Life in prison

    Li Songjian - Non-executive director of Shanghai Electric Group - Involved in the Shanghai Electric Group case; the embezzlement of 50 million yuan; 700,000 yuan in bribes - 18 months in prison

    Wang Chenming - Former Board of Director of Shanghai Electric - Involved in the Shanghai Electric Group case; share corruption of 300 million Yuan with Yan Jinbao and Lu Tianming; 210,000 yuan in bribes - Death penalty
    http://chinascope.org/main/content/view/899/76/1/1/

    January 2010: Singapopre High Court – Shanghai Electric fail to build a promised power plant.

    On 2 February 2009, PT Merak issued to Shanghai Electric a “Notice of Contractor Default”… alleging that since 10 August 2007 (the date of the Contract), “very little progress was made on the construction of the Power Plant. Apart from the temporary site office, temporary warehouse, temporary site roads, test pilings, excavation and some lean concrete (levelling concrete) for the foundations of the Boiler and Turbine Buildings, there is nothing else on site. Significantly, [Shanghai Electric] failed to complete the work in respect of Payment Milestones 1 to 5. Further, [PT Merak] also encountered numerous difficulties with [Shanghai Electric].
    http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/laws-of-singapore/case-law/free-law/high-court-judgments/14007-shanghai-electric-group-co-ltd-v-pt-merak-energi-indonesia-and-another-2010-sghc-2

    Zhang Rongkun … was a member of the board of directors on Shanghai Electric Group until his resignation in August 2006. In 2008 Zhang was convicted of giving government employees $4.1 million in bribes and was sentenced to 19 years in prison.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Rongkun

    Mr Buckley...Historical corruption and embezzlement? Faulty equipment? Failure to deliver? Advance Australia Fair.

  2. SP3

    14,658 posts.

    Wonder if the CEO of Latrobe City Council will read your post?

  3. Obe wan

    2,123 posts.

    Lol! What a meaty story IMO that would have been for T Arup

  4. baliboy

    1,237 posts.

    great stuff onlymoney.may I suggest your email or fax a copy of your posting to Mr Paul Buckley for his comments and ask if Mr Buckley would like to comment.Iam no expert but from what I can gather,dealing with the chinese is your worst night mare come true.

  5. are you sure 'lol' is not missing from this thread heading.

    Really,,, what are you people thinking.....

  6. Great Info-Interesting.... Need to pass this onto the Journos
    To check if Anyone's Bank balance has jumped
    At the DPI headquarters....
    Sounds like they'll take 15-30 Million and leave some Concrete
    Foundations as well...
    If their Tech was good- they'd have taken over as leaders in the Lignite
    Benefication area...

  7. lol Kel :) :)

    Let's never forget where the 90mil ( originally 100mil ) came from in the first ( second ) place :) :),, and what they did with the other 10 mil ( in all probability ) :) :)

  8. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    I have sent a copy of my research to Denis Napthine (Vic State Premier, Paul Buckley (CEO Latrobe Council), Herald Sun news desk, and, of course Tom Arup of The Age, asking for comments and suggesting Mr Arup writes a follow-up article. If anyone would like to lobby further news outlets / govnt departments, please feel free to copy and paste the original post.



    Dear Sir,

    On the 7th August this year, Tom Arup wrote in The Age newspaper that Chinese state-owned 'Shanghai Electric Group' are in line for millions of government dollars from the ALDP (Advanced Lignite Demonstration Program).

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/china-powers-ahead-in-hidden-tender-for-brown-coal-millions-20130806-2rdjt.html

    Paul Buckley, leader of Latrobe Council, was quoted as saying Shanghai Electric are "a huge and credible organisation. If there was an opportunity for them to invest in the valley in the kinds of projects the council supports, then we would be very happy for them to be here.''

    My research, listed below, shows a different side to Shanghai Electric. A scandal-hit company with many directors now languishing in prison for corruption, bribery and embezzlement.

    As a freelance journalist, I am writing an article voicing concerns that a company with such a track record is in line to receive millions in state and federal grant money.

    Your views on the situation would be much appreciated.

    Yours sincerely.

  9. pago

    369 posts.

    great research
    THANKS
    cheers

  10. Onlymoney..... I give Youthe ESI Kelcorbett Hotcopper
    Chase Em down Journalist Award for the Year!!!
    Well done!!!
    Hup Hup Hurrae!!!
    Now If Lautrec can russel up some of his writing and send
    It to the same peps- We'd have ourselves some
    Wide eyed politicians!!!!

  11. oh dear.

    And if Tony links you and the esi threads to this letter.

    There goes ALDP ,,, perhaps,,,, again.. compromise ,, etc

    did you state your vested interests ( esi holder ) in the letter ,, as is protocol in such scenarios ?

  12. SP3

    14,658 posts.

    Onlymoney

    You should also send it to the state opposition leader and the local member of latrobe as well as Ryan (Minister for State Development) and Kotsiras (Energy Minister). I aasume either Ryan or Kotsiras will sign the ALDP letters/agreements.

  13. while you are at it you may as well clean up the valley with a posse you all :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPeWT7cT8MQ

  14. amazed

    2,232 posts.

    onlymoney...Great post.

    The Shanghai Electric/Coal Plus media stuff has roiled s/holders for the right reasons. I reckon Tom Arup had some strong info there.

    Surely some here have sent onlymoney's post on to Tom Arup (The Age) and the Latrobe Valley Express...? How could they not be interested...bit of balance...?

    IMO the Govts would be aware of all this, but could take the view that "a new broom" is now over Shanghai Electrical...and "we need the certainty of major $$ for rail/port".

    However - that does not excuse the fact that Shanghai Electric/Coal Plus do not seem to qualify for the ALDP no matter how their techs/financing/corporate structures is/are tweaked. They already have proven commercial techs. Fact.

    Todays ann:

    "The Company continues to await the outcome of the ALDP, a joint state and federal initiative established to provide support funding to Companies, toward the cost of demonstrating pre-commercial lignite upgrading technologies, that otherwise could not proceed. The successful demonstration and subsequent commercialisation of low or zero emission upgrading technologies on Victoria’s vast lignite reserves clearly supports economic, energy and climate security."

    I thought this was well done. It highlights the original motivating factor for ALDP - techs "that otherwise could not proceed"...ie the ALDP was designed to give a "helping hand" to truuuuly pre-commercial techs like Coldry.

    It also highlighted "low or zero emission upgrading technologies". Why is that interesting?

    Shanghai Electrical use fluidized bed tech.

    http://www.egcfe.ewg.apec.org/publications/proceedings/LRC/Beijing_2012/Lignite%20dewatering%20and%20its%20effects%20on%20coal%20properties-Chaffe.pdf

    Page 23...fluidized bed tech - eg Shanghai Electrical

    All smilies except the... "No net efficiency improvement"


    Page 30...Densified Coal tech...eg Coldry

    All smilies including the... ""Uses low grade heat""


    Waste heat is the clear factor that distinguishes Coldry from the "rest" - inc fluidized bed tech ...according to Monash University. Significant fact.

    ECT were obviously pointing to this waste heat advantage when they stated the "low or zero emission upgrading technologies on Victoria’s vast lignite reserves clearly supports economic, energy and climate security" fact when they ann today...

    Coal Plus...well - JAT ann 6/3/13 non-binding LOI...and since then no ann. Strange situation there re ALDP Tom Arup. Shortlist happened Dec - where is the JAT ASX anns re the situation...?

    Why is Coal Plus NOT plastered all over the JAT website...? I reckon we can discount JAT. If Coal Plus are in the game - they must be flying solo.

    In any case - Coal Plus are already commercial in China - hence no ALDP according to the guidelines.

    Its clear for a massive Pilbara to happen - rail/port need to be financed. I hope Shanghai Electric/Coal Plus are involved to support all that. But wrt ALDP...its a clear no no from every direction.

    As others have stated (inc Monash University article) - Coldry's waste heat advantage is the no-brainer long term solution the Govts must employ. To ALDP back these Monsters with old tech is plain wrong.

    Anyway...supposing Coldry did miss out on ALDP...where are we?

    I would take the rejection as typical clear short sightedness by the Govts. Their legacy long term would be seen by all inc the greens to favour clearly old, commercial proven "No net efficiency improvement" coys for the pure $$ reasons that they can conveniently fund rail/port.

    It would be no reflection on the Coldry/Matmor techs.

    In the event of an ALDP rejection, clearly India would be the focus. Now someone might ask WHY couldnt Shanghai Electric/Coal Plus undermine Coldry in India as well?

    In India no rail/port is needed - the cost is 50% less to build, India has MASSIVE water issues.

    The Coldry/Matmor techs would stand on their own in India. Waste heat/water will rule. Matmor the end game that India wants BUT cant get unless they commercialise Coldry first.

    The red tape will be 10% of what it is in Aust. Neyveli are 5 folding their burning capacity over the next 5 years to 5 times the size of AGL/LY.

    Anyway - we all expect Coldry to win some ALDP $$$...Waste heat simply MUST be demonstrated in LV...must.

    ps...No other tech Monash University researched gets the complete "tick" like Coldry did (via waste heat). Have a look at the bottom of the article - there were so many well qualified researchers involved. Fact is they were not $ incentivised to publish any of that. Nice tick for Coldry tech.

    tick tock...

  15. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6u8gbTfHNw


    All revealed,,,, in a nut shell :)

    Lignut :)

  16. sideways

    1,715 posts.

    It really is turning into a nut house. Come on ECT and let's get this show on the road.

  17. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    Cheers, SP3

    Also sent to Daniel Andrews (State Opposition Leader), Russell Northe (MP for Morwell), Hon Peter Ryan (Minister for State Development), Hon Nicholas Kotsiras (Minister for Energy & Resources)and Lisa Cridge (Editor at Latrobe Valley Express)

    I will let you know of any replies.

  18. amazed

    2,232 posts.

    onlymoney...

    Just saw you have already done what I was posting/requesting...

    You were posting while I was typing!

    Well Done.

    tick tock...

  19. SP3

    14,658 posts.

    It might be worth alerting Tom Arup via twitter.

    His nic is @My Environment Inc

  20. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    I'll leave Twitter to someone else. I don't have an account.

  21. lautrec

    8,606 posts.

    Amazed,

    Going by the post you made above and the nature of that companies history, I wonder if the company took steps to remove the cultural environment that nurtured criminality.

    Has this been done? Is the elemnt now gone because people are in prison?
    We all know that crime, as with love, money, and war can transcend any moral...they can even transcend prison!

    Tom Arup fundamental flaw was his failure to scratch below the surface of information that a sparrow had whispered in his ear - information he passed on blindly to the public like a rugby ball, void of diligence or mitigated responsibility.

    He would have uncovered a previously rotten-to-the-core company of old...but what if it in 2013?
    A little bit of an ALDP Grants explanatory dinner and cocktails might be in order, outlining to the pound (of flesh?) paying public exactly why it is safe fund a company like this. I, as would others, hope that the answer was something along the lines of...
    HOLD ON...SCCrreeech - but this outfit i'm talking about, Shanghai Electric/Coal Plus, has a proven and commercial technology already don't they? That is, don't they propose to bring something that is already proven (a product, technique and path to market)??

    Pheeew. I thought they were actually eligilbe for the ALDP Grant for a second there. I was even going to waste some time complaining about a reporter who had a chance to uncover a potential injustice!
    But (eyes roll) none of it applies now in any way because they don't qualify and no matter what T Arup or Shanghai so and so say to little birdies, it's misdirected energy - kind of like what i just nearly did.

    So..onwards and upwards folks, we have game to change that is taking up a lot of brilliant minds to conjure as it is, without them having to work with metaphors for geese who need chasing.

    COLDRY is the best - OVERALL - and it's a fact.

    Steps to understanding comparative appraisals:
    1) Line up the different companies on the charts on the Y Axis...

    2) Line up the Benefits on the X axis...

    3) Decide whether a large or small number is superior within each column...

    4) Note that Coldry is the best in 90% of the columns which as is said makes it OVERALL superior to every single other competing technology, if you can cal them that due to Coldry being borne out of a patented and one-of-a-kind technology, exclusive to Environmentally Clean Technologies, Australia.


    Lautrec

    PS: For anyone else reading, I have an interest in ESI both financially and morally, as far as what type of coal the world should burn - the cleanest equivalent available.

    PSS: My Pledge, as many know is that until another superior technology comes along, i will support this cleaner pathway for the 3rd world with my own pocket (unlike most mums and dads who don't realise that they can make this happen on this level and who depend on governments and industry completely to LEAD change).
    And I will support this industry on behalf of a cleaner future for 3rd world countries because in many cases across the dirty, wet, carbon generating, brown coal is all they have to work with and because we invented the thing that makes brown coal into a black coal equivalent + distilled grade water, IT IS UP TO US to make it happen.

  22. sideways

    1,715 posts.

    Plenty of nuts there Rupe. I didn't realise corporate China was so corrupt. What a surprise. But my 95 year old grandmother knows a lot about it. She was a good high school teacher in her day.

  23. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    Lautrec,

    You ask if Shanghai Electric have cleaned up their act. It appears not as of four months ago. You do a deal with one company to exclusively manufacture and distribute wind turbines in India. Once they have sunk massive amounts of money into the project, you pull the rug from under them and give the exclusivity to another company. Trustworthy? Do they deserve 30 or 40 million dollars of taxpayer's money?

    April 2013: NEW DELHI:The Madras High Court has passed an interim injunction restraining Shanghai Electric from violating its February 2012 agreement with Chennai-based Vayuvidyut Projects to manufacture wind turbines in India. The order, passed recently, was in response to a petition filed by Vayuvidyut Projects, which alleged that Shanghai Electric terminated its 10-year collaboration agreement abruptly to join hands with Germany's Siemens to manufacture and market wind turbines in India.

    http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-04-25/news/38817147_1_wind-turbines-shanghai-electric-siemens

  24. NT84

    880 posts.

    What makes you think by sending such an email that it might not create a negative effect on ALDP ??

  25. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    If such an email brings down a $90 million top secret government program (complete with whistleblowers and false website statements), then perhaps scrutiny of the ALDP process will be a good thing.

    Shanghai Electric made a profit in excess of 3 billion dollars last year. Are they entitled to a government grant? Is the ALDP process working properly and fairly? Does it have the best interests of Australia, Latrobe Valley and the Aussie workforce at heart?

    Who knows? Maybe Tom Arup does...

  26. cigary

    527 posts.

    ESI and the ALDP story will make for a good movie one day..??.. If not a good movie surely a brilliant documentary featuring a cast of HC subscribers.. any thoughts fellow holders.... ps I think we have it....

  27. I would think long and hard about what you fellahs are up to,,, and please seek legal advice.

    Signed letters referring to alleged corruption pointing fingers and naming big megabux power-ful companies ,,,,, well,,,,, you know the little guy never wins,,,, don't you ???? ,,, well hardly ever, and you know how the order of the greasy palm works wrt ''love me tender'' .....

    Also if you write to Para ALDP entities , you may just get em off side enough to roll their eyes and disqualify ,, that which you are intending to qualify / ''achieve''

    You can bet your bottom dollar that Tony Arup and assc read H.C. or have it brought to their attn by enviro readers ,, or even X factor channelers ( you know the type,,,suffer from dizzy height problems )

    I would hate to see your zeal come back and bite you hard .

    The H.C. fighting fund is not a bag of gold behind a shield of steel. imo.

    let sleeping dogs lie,,,would be my mantra,, as opposed to ''idiom'' in this matter .

    IMO it is fine to reasonably ''speculate'' or articulate reasonable speculation wrt speculative micro penny stocks,,,, but you name names, and point fingers,,, well,,,,,,tic flea tock ,,,imo

    why do you think some of my more ridiculously codified posts receive weird responses ?

    You can bet the munters I direct them at,,, do not respond,,, in first person,,,,,

    imo e&oe.

  28. Surges

    2,843 posts.

    Excellent post Rupert !

    If my conclusion of the latest weird events is correct, the last thing shareholders should do is to write to green oriented journalists and stir a nest best not bothered with as those writers might use such information to discredit the entire program, which operates in secrecy greatly due to the fact that they want to keep political and green oriented emotional opposition at bay and out of the decision process.

    The DPI just bought itself 3 months time to conclude negotiations.
    If people can not understand it, they should not invest in companies which are aligned with governmental funding processes, in my opinion.

  29. Thanks S.

    I would hate to read about certain exposed private persons,, in the court lists / queues .

    Big corporations have massive resources at their disposal when it comes to the idiom '' credit, where credit's due''

    ( not mantra,,,,)

    ESI is a public company and as such holds at least ONE formal meeting per month. IMO,,, any concerns that holders have should be run past the board as suggestions and marked ''ATTN THE BOARD'' and sent to at least 2 board members and the co sec.

    Board members of public companies are extremely cognoscente of their responsibilities wrt public company rules and regs.

    IMO,, you leave the running of a public company to those charged by the shareholders to perform such tasks.

    Anything else,, ( as posted previously ) is akin to a redneck posse ,, and imo, operating WAAAY outside of ALL understood legal, or other deemed protocols imo.

    e&oe.

    personally,,, I am AMAZED ~! that non elected share holders would condone such concepts,,, let alone post on public discussion boards, the nature and content of their non condoned intent .

    imho LADS AND LASSES ( as posted in the shadow knows Goodyear add recently,,,,) Get a grip,,,, lest ye bite thine own bottom ,,, line,,,

    imo,, dyor R.D.

    e&oe

  30. Exactly RDO (rostered day off) need to be way more diplomatic and careful BUT a bit late after the decision, the umpire is never ever wrong remember.

  31. amazed

    2,232 posts.

    "Surely some here have sent onlymoney's post on to Tom Arup (The Age) and the Latrobe Valley Express...? How could they not be interested...bit of balance...?

    IMO the Govts would be aware of all this, but could take the view that "a new broom" is now over Shanghai Electrical...and "we need the certainty of major $$ for rail/port".
    ________________________________________

    That was my original comment. My second post - look at whom it was in reply to. I was not condoning sending it "everywhere". Personally, I would have only sent it to those two media groups as they were the two whom wrote articles on the subject. I agree - sending it to every politician is over the top.

    tick tock...

  32. Nothing to do with ESi topic, but since you are talking about free speech, even letters sent in to uur local Border Mail in Albury, are edited, shortened, words and meanings changed or not published at all depending on how the BM views it.

    Unless you are out in the main street with a micro phone, there is no "free" speech.
    ... but even there, the Council or Police will come and move you on without some sort of permit.

  33. AGREE cockatoooo.

    One of the best ''political'' definitions of diplomacy I reckon I have ever heard was Humphrey Applebee ( Yes Minister BBC series )

    He stated :



    ''Diplomacy'' ,,The ability to articulate the theme '' go to Hell '' in such a manner,,, that the recipient,, actually looks forward to the trip.

    not quite ''cricket'' but,,, what IS,,, these days :)

    ( inc cricket :) :)

    imo.

    e&oe RD

  34. samwiise

    3,296 posts.

    i think that the various occurrences over the past 1.5yrs in particular (namely ongoing funding unknowns such as monash debacles and aldp mysteries, plus many other things) has made ESI forum posters go slightly nuts.

    Myself included LOL

  35. Here is a similar story to ESI's story over in the states.
    The full story can be viewed on SBwire . ( citation )

    Clean Coal Technologies Inc (OTCMKTS:CCTC) opened its shares at the price of $0.05 for the day, its closing price was $0.0440 after losing -4.35% for the day. The company traded with the total volume of 957,744 shares, while its average trading volume remained 751,682 shares. The beta of CCTC stands at 1.00.
    If we review the company’s graph to check its previous trends, we come to know these figures: During the last 5 trades the stock jumped almost +7.84%. During the last one month it rose with the percentage of +31.74. Along with these, its year to date performance remained adverse -6.38%. Clean Coal Technologies, Inc., a development stage company, owns a patented technology that uses controlled heat to extract and capture pollutants and moisture from low-rank coal. Its technology transforms coal with various levels of impurities, contaminants, and other polluting elements into a low polluting fuel. The company has a trade mark ?PRISTINE? for a range of applications, including coal-fired power stations, chemical byproduct extraction, and as a source fuel for coal-to-gas and coal-to-liquid technologies. Clean Coal Technologies, Inc. is headquartered in New York, New York.

    Has CCTC Found The Bottom And Ready To Gain Momentum? Find Out Here

    e&oe RD

  36. Amazed,

    You state;

    "Surely some here have sent onlymoney's post on to Tom Arup (The Age) and the Latrobe Valley Express...? How could they not be interested...bit of balance...? ''

    My questions to you amazed,are ;

    What has enviro journalism got to do with '' balance '' ?

    What ''balance'' do you consider is ''news worthy''

    What balance to the recipients of such letters consider news worthy ?

    What ''interest'' would you expect Tom Arup et al, to gauge/articulate from such letters ?

    cheers RD .

  37. samwiise,

    perhaps hpyer-vigilant & suspicious of many and varied things too . IMO.

    Who's Monash again ??? :~)

    1.5 yrs ?

    How about the story followers per the past 1.5 decades :) :)

    cheers RD

  38. samwiise

    3,296 posts.

    Hi Rupe. I take your point regarding shareholders who have been following the story for 1.5 decades and I do feel for those who have followed this company for that long but when I stated “1.5 years” just to clarify that I was primarily referring to 1.5yrs as being the rough time period that shareholders have been waiting for Monash to come clean with their promises of funding agreements by either paying up or folding. That is a long time to keep drawing it out (for whatever reasons good/bad). We are still waiting to this day as of August 16, 2013 trading.

    I do agree though that some ESI forum posters do raise some valid questions regarding Shanghai Electric group who is rumoured to be in the running for ALDP funds. But a rumour is exactly all it is at this stage, nothing more and nothing less. We do not know how valid his “sources” are that got this information and we do not know if any of these rumours are facts or not.

    The rumour regarding the ALDP letters not being sent out yet (contrary to what was stated on the aldp website at the time) has now been proven correct in that the ALDP has now updated their website saying that no one has been advised, alongside the announcement ESI released yesterday regarding ALDP.

    What onlookers/ bystanders have to understand re the reason or reason(s) a lot of shareholder’s are frustrated and rattled by the various rumour’s mentioned above that have been circulating especially in regards to Shanghai Electric potentially being successful is that:
    a) Shanghai electric group is not even based/ from Australia and many people wish the program would support “Aussie” companies.
    b) Shanghai electric group does not meet the eligibility criteria to apply/ seek ALDP funds based on the ALDP criteria widely available on the internet and spoken about on ESI forum for months now.
    c) Part of the reason why many shareholder’s have put up with or tolerated the “silence treatment” re private funding for CDP and CSP over the past several months IS BECAUSE we were under the impression/ view that the silence was largely for the purposes of maximising our ALDP chances (namely increasing our chances of getting more of the ALDP “pie”), hence if rumoured we were not one of the companies that was successful, this just adds fuel to the fire imo.
    d) ESI has stated publicly in past ESI ASX released announcements (go back and look!) that they have specifically tailored the Design for tender (DFT) to much of the ALDP criteria’s which one would think is for the purposes of maximising our chances of success for the program – so we have put a lot of effort into our ALDP submission(s).
    e) It is believed by many shareholder’s (and rightly so) that our technology is just as economically viable (not to mention many, many other benefits of our technology) and in some cases more economically viable than many of the companies/ tech’s rumoured to have been successful and could facilitate starting a new Pilbara to a much more larger degree.
    f) Similarly to point [C], Because shareholder’s have been waiting for funding agreements to be executed/ announced for some time now, on many fronts.

    And I do agree that the process is not going to be sped up and our chances are not going to be substantially improved re gaining maximum ALDP funds BY hounding/ bombarding/ protesting various stakeholders who are associated in the decision making process or we perceive to be involved in the decision making process.

    I wish all holders and especially long term holders the best of luck, bearing in mind that our current share price is at .007 and we are issuing far too many cheap shares for my liking (not that I know what the alternative is!).

  39. pago

    369 posts.

    I have no problem with the letter by onlymoney.
    I perceive OM has spent considerable time and effort to draft this letter and how to carefully respond to the situation.

    A few comments
    The letter from OM is from a freelance journalist asking for views for his article.Its not a letter/complaint from an esi shareholder. I dont see any direct fallout for esi re the aldp.

    The letter from OM is not,imho,defamatory.It states shanghai as being a scandal-hit company,etc.This is information issued by media and readily accessible on the net by research.This comment in the letter can be verified as fact.

    The opposing view
    I agree,the letter from OM should not develope into a campaign.Its enough for now for this letter to be sent to relevant people requesting an informed reply.I suspect they already know but now they will know a journalist also knows.
    I agree ,be very careful not to defame and there is always the risk that wealthy entities may commence litigation as a gagging writ.IMHO not likely by shanghai in this situation, they didnt get the letter and too much to lose.

    Finally , if onlymoney feels uneasy,I suggest he removes his letter post.not my call,Im ok with it.
    Cheers

  40. Amazed.

    Please consider dignifying my questions with a response in your own good time thank you.

    cheers Daz

  41. just a personal addendum from personal experience.

    If you have ever done business with the great nation of China, or have been involved in Military, Industrial, and or diplomatic relations with the great nation of China, the last thing I would EVER consider is disrespecting the great nation of China and or any of their pursuits and or industrial co-exploits within the great nation of Australia.

    Just look at what Maestro Twiggy has this week manage to do wrt billions of dollars of co investment into port infrastructure c/o the great nations of China and Australia .

    RESPECT.

    imo e&oe.

  42. SP3

    14,658 posts.

    Try explaining that theory to PLV shareholders.

  43. hahahahaha,,, you naughty boy :) you forgot about 16 penny micro stocks ,,, I would refer to them,,, but modesty, fighting fund pressures, and my signature forbids :) :)

  44. on the money rav :)

    and as c2 states,,,, the umpire is ALWAYS right.

    GLTA

    e&oe

  45. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    From the office of Paul Buckley: "Thank you for your email. We are unable to assist you in this instance and perhaps you should speak to the state and federal government for your story."

  46. grangeh

    9,538 posts.

    Any responses yet Onlymoney?

    TIA

  47. grangeh

    9,538 posts.

    Oops sorry missed your post OM....only timing.... Lol

  48. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    Quick update: I received an email from the office of the Premier of Victoria. They have referred my correspondence to the Minister for Energy and Resources, the Hon Nicholas Kotsiras MP, for a direct response.

    I have already contacted Mr Kotsiras. Perhaps now I will receive a reply :)

  49. SP3

    14,658 posts.

    So far 6 TU for that post?

    Unbelievable!!!

    Do you expect Mr Kotsiras to say anything other than the process is not yet finalised?

  50. samfiodiving

    1,163 posts.

    SP3 get off your high horse

  51. onlymoney

    203 posts.

    I am under no delusion that my communications will in any way change the outcome of the ALDP, but I am happy in the knowledge that it has been passed from Victoria's Premier to the Energy Minister. My holding in ESI will never make me rich, but I am determined to see a fair outcome in a taxpayer-funded grant program, conducted by publicly-elected politicians.

    Take a look at Shanghai Electric's buyout of Goss International in 2010 (US$ 1.5 billion), then the lay off of half the French workforce, then the liquidation on the premise the print industry was in decline whilst they were, themselves, building a plant in China. In April of this year, French unions told the press: "Its main interest was the acquisition of a well-established international brand name and with it the expertise and patents of a leading manufacturer, aiming from the beginning to transfer production to low-cost facilities at home...After siphoning our expertise and our patents, Shanghai Electrics wants to separate from the French company in the most odious way."

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/04/08/goss-a08.html

    If ALDP funding goes the Shanghai Electric way, and "experts" from China are required to operate the demonstration plant (including making the tea), no one can say 'we weren't warned'.

    If the full-scale plant is rolled out, operated by more Chinese "experts" and tea boys again. Some may rub their chins and grumble about all the lignite being exported to China.

    And by the time the lights go out in Latrobe Valley, it might just be too late.

    IMO

  52. OM Not so sure your inputs won't get some traction with the decision maker's especially if there is now a 'paper trail'. Are we still guessing if letters of offer have been sent yet? If LT is aware of progress can he add to his holding? Recent history shows the 2mill buy sell this morning won't be pulled, whats going on there? No answers required as those that know are unlikely to post.

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